Thank u, next. Matching on dating apps gives validation and sometimes that’s all we want.

Los Angeles gets candid during fifth Hear+Qwere salon

During the L.A. salon we discussed challenges with religion and life in strict households. We uncovered truths about dating apps and the various ways they’re used to get what’s wanted. We dished on when to “code switch,” tried to ID what ‘queer’ even means, and got candid about our young questioning selves.

Trigger warming! Expect real life personal experiences and occasional graphic language.

Names have been respectfully omitted for the privacy of participants, their families and professional networks. Punctuation is used to guide readers most accurately towards the speakers cadence.

Major thanks to those who participated and to Mi Centro in Los Angeles for hosting.

What does it mean

to be queer?

"I don’t like to go with labels. Queer is, in my opinion, this label that you put on someone who’s different from yourself. Society identifies you if you’re different from the person next to you. I may not identify with ‘queer’ personally or describe myself as queer.”

“It’s like an umbrella. It’s everyone that isn’t straight or monogamous. I think it has to do with sexual orientation and gender identity. I would identify as a queer LatinX because I don’t feel like I’m a straight woman. That’s my understanding of being queer. A general term that we’re taking back. Remember the bad game growing up Smear the Queer? I remember hearing that term and I didn’t want to identify that way. Like the word ‘dyke’. Now it’s this really proud group that I’m proud to be part of. And everyone just looks so different and it’s diverse in the way you love or express yourself. Hair. Piercings. It’s everything that has to do with identity in a non-binary world.”

“I define ‘queer’ as someone that’s different. Coming from a really religious Jehovah’s Witness family, queer was always judgmental in that particular church. It was hard growing up in that environment. What queer is is being yourself and your true identity expression; anything. That’s how I see what queer is.”

“When I started hearing the word ‘queer’, it was very derogatory. I would cringe. ‘Why are we using that word?’ [I’m a teacher.] The parents would ask me what it meant and I started using the term of ‘umbrella’. Then they would want me to define it in Spanish and there is no translation. There’s ‘raro.’ but that’s odd and has a negative connotation. But what I wanted was a clarification from a student. I was having a hard time understanding. She said, ‘I’m a queer woman. Sometimes I feel masculine, others I feel feminine.’ That’s simple enough for me to comprehend. I started being more comfortable. I wouldn’t say I’m queer myself, but am part of the queer community. I identify as a gay cis man, but I do think with everything that’s changing your sexual gender identity is constantly fluid. I think the word ‘queer’ encompasses all of that.”

“Coming up, ‘queer’ was not part of our LGBT community. Adding the plethora of sexualities, queer has just been added on, for me, the past two or three years. That new classification on the end of LGBT is new to me. I’ve known of the word, but growing up it wasn’t a word that was used in my community. My community’s derogatory terms were ‘fag’. That was to make you feel bad about who you are. ‘Queer’ was more of my mom’s generation, but I didn’t know too much of queer as a young guy. It’s new right now.”

“I like claiming queer because … I also grew up in religious households and been part of that most of my life. It’s been maybe a 10 year battle to get my parents to see me as I am. I needed to engrain in their head that I was a lesbian, because if I said bi, they would think I’d change. Then I started coming to terms with gender, then it was like, ‘Great! How do I tell them I’m also on the trans spectrum and a lesbian?’ I think they’ll think I just need attention. What I like about ‘queer’ is you can claim all of those things every day and you don’t have to explain that it’s a phase or a feeling. It’s all encompassing. That’s what I love about my understanding.”

“It’s a nice word that is all encompassing. If you’re speaking with someone who you don’t know that well, but you want to identify yourself. Some people want to keep details private. So if you want to retain about what’s personal to you and still present yourself that way, ‘queer’ seems like a good word to serve that purpose.”

How do dating apps

affect your daily life

or how have they in the past?

“It’s difficult for me personally. There’s… it’s really hard. Trying to find someone you can really connect with. I have a hard time with it. Especially someone to connect with spiritually or energy-wise. And sometimes you have those bad dates and then you have some good ones. For me it’s always been kinda hard.”

“I’m on Tinder and I’ve gone on dates with Tinder but it’s a love/hate that I have for it because I feel like people are fickle and a lot of it has to do with getting ‘Likes’ and getting matches. People aren’t there for the follow through. They’re not invested; you’re just a stranger on the other side. It hurts. It sucks. But it also, for me, makes me feel a little insecure. Because I feel like a lot of people are always just waiting for someone better or the next person. Where I live, I don’t like using it. Maybe I’ll get like three people that I don’t even match with in a day. If I come to the city, there’s more swipe through.”

“Across the board, the app, where we have moved as a culture -- if you pay attention to a room, you don’t see people engaged in conversation anymore. They’re personally on their phones. You’re getting your fix from your phone, texts, video chat, social app. I’ve had my share of social app dating and it’s about what you … for me… however you’re feeling at that time, that’s what you’ll go for. You wake up in the morning and say ‘I feel like being in a relationship that day.’ You’re seeking someone on the same page on that same day. Weeding out people who are hitting you up, passing people by. Maybe that night you’re over the relationship and you just want to fuck. Now you are receptive to anyone who hits you up that’s showing some type of nudity or saying some type of vulgar talk because your mood has changed. When we’re on these apps we’re not being real with ourselves. If you’re genuinely looking for something, commit to it. If you know more about yourself and what you want, you’ll be able to have more success on the apps.”

“You touched on something very true. I’m a frequent app user. I have had… Tinder, yes. OK Cupid, Plenty of Fish back in the day. For the last five years, anybody I’ve met has only been through online. That’s mostly how I meet people. I feel like these apps have a lot to do with the person, sometimes more primarily so than making the connection. I’m prone to times when I’m really insecure and you need a little boost and you try to make matches. I’m guilty of ghosting because that’s all I wanted: to get that validation and give me attention. I don’t really wanna go on a date. Try it in different cities. It can be very much about satisfying something within yourself. It has nothing to do with the other people. They’re there to help you feel a certain way about yourself. Connecting with them isn’t your goal.”

“With the apps, I hate when they use ‘no Femmes, no fats’ and stuff like that. And sometimes I think, ‘Wow guys are really like that.’ And sometimes you have those who are scammers and want to take your money. I’ve had that happen and I caught on before. There’s people out there.”

“Being careful on the apps. Not only can you meet random people, but you can be anybody you want to be, also. Just as you can take on the identity on a social app, so can someone else. You’re getting someone else that you’re not at times, then that’s gonna happen on the other end too. That’s where we’ve come as society. The attention time is shorter. After millennials the attention span is getting shorter. You’re looking for a 60 second clip… something new is always coming through and that’s projecting into our lives. Every 60 seconds you’re not connecting with people in a deeper level because you’re so ready for that next show next clip and you’re using that with people also. It’s a gift and a curse.”

“As humans we seek to be connected and that’s the irony of social media; you’re connected to all these people and no one at the same time. I wonder if people will decide they’re not getting what they need and there’ll be a resurgence of authentic connection.”

“I hope we can reverse to more meaningful connections. Hopefully that will come, with our grandchildren. Making more platforms for open dialogue conversation and genuine connections we would have that opportunity to make that change in our generation while we’re still on the market. “

Who inspired your

young queer self?

“My uncles and my dads, old school rock n roll. But for me was Freddie Mercury from Queen. That’s when I really got a perspective of queer, what does ‘gay’ mean. Starting to know about his life and how he was and that’s what really, I guess, it opened up for me. It really opened up for me and for knowing who I am and my true self.”

“I grew up as Jehovah’s Witness. Everything was so hidden. I made sexual connections, but always while hiding. Two of my best friend who I’ve known my whole life, we hung out middle school and high school. Three musketeers. We never talked about it. All of us were afraid of losing each other’s friendship. That’s a hard one. Somebody must have… People knew. We were like Powder Puffs. And the first banquet we were Diana Ross and the Supremes. People knew. One of our leadership advisors would give us the keys to the school. We went to see Making Love and all of us sat there and no one said anything. As a kid… Because all of us were so afraid and not out to families. It was like this flood that just came out. Young kids having a three bedroom house, it was freedom.”

“I don’t think I had a role model because I struggled with accepting who I was for a long time. Especially in adolescence. There wasn’t anyone who I was fascinated with or looked up to because I thought there was something in me that was religiously not accepted and just a whole snowball of emotions that were against my lifestyle. So I can’t … it wasn’t an exciting time for me. Something I wanted to aspire to be like, it was something I had to manifest and grow into.”

“I identify as straight and cis. I have like, I’ve had experiences with girls and I like women, but have never been in a relationship with one. I don’t know if I ever will. I primarily look for men. I’m somewhere on the Kinsey spectrum. Sexuality is fluid.”

What experiences have you had with

queer cinema?

“Every musical did something for me. Wizard of Oz and everyone knows that one, when I was little my parents told me that I would watch it over and over. That and Beauty and the Beast.”

“I have several straight role models. That wasn’t displayed for me as a child. As a child that wasn’t something at hand’s reach. I come from a Christian home. My father was a gangster, grandfather was a sheriff, grandmother in the church, mother was partier. Nothing queer or gay was at my disposal. More so the fantasy of and the theater background, and thing you’ve seen and dance. Anything that was fantasy I was fascinated by.”

“When I was a child I didn’t have any gay… nowadays just recently Love, Simon came out. If that came out when I was growing up that would’ve helped me so much more. I didn’t have anything like that. If it did, it would’ve helped me a lot more.”

“For me, all the thing about characters … I was attracted to somehow or another because they were queer but they were negative stereotypes. Making Love was so tragic and everything was so negative. But I still wanted to be watching it. It was either tragic or the butt of a joke; especially in Spanish TV. Everything you heard, nothing was positive whatsoever. Adding the religion to it, I was like there’s no way.”

“When I was 16 my mom told me my uncle was gay and all these lightbulbs wet off. We had special connection growing up. Some of my earliest memories were with him. And I remember being in the crib and having him as a family member, even though we both acknowledged… It felt safe to be around him or dress masculine around him. And I feel confident, whereas in the past, if someone said I looked masculine it would ruin me because I thought I wasn’t supposed to. He’s an influence in being who I am. He dresses as a woman and he showed me that he’s done it his entire life. With him I can be this person. Someone else who inspires me is someone I dated and she asked me, ‘Where do you see yourself on the trans spectrum?’ and that took the biggest load off of me. Having the language to speak has helped a lot. Talking about queer and trans. I can’t see anyone in cinema or TV has helped me to live authentically. It’s the people who are closest for me.”

What have been your experiences with

queerness in relation to religion or spirituality?

“Very hard. I felt very judged. And if I did come out to anyone from the church, I felt they would be judging me the whole time. It was hard growing up in the religion. I remember when I was in the religion, I talked to them. In my teens I was feeling… I wanted… I had these feelings toward the same sex and remember telling one of the elders in the congregation. I felt confident that I wanted to tell him. When I did, that person said, ‘Don’t act up on them. Just try to hide it.’ I thought, ‘This is me. Why would I want to do that?’ Religion is still very hard for me.”

“I agree. It’s a battle of yourself, your core, your family. You’re being raised one way and you kinda don’t have that outlet until you meet someone else. Once you get older, you get that outlet. I didn’t get any negativity. It was just something I felt like if I brought it to the table they were gonna shun me. They didn’t want to engage in the conversation about. Even heterosexuality wasn’t something we discussed. For adults, sexuality just wasn’t out there. It wasn’t something we discussed. So religiously it certainly wasn’t something we talked about. The teachings of Christianity and feeling like I didn’t have that outlet to express those feelings. We all go through that testing point. And at that testing point you’re liable to test the waters with anyone; your closest youth friend, boy or girl. You’re finding out new things about yourself. For me I was experimenting. ‘What can we do?’ There was no, ‘We shouldn’t do this.’ Religiously it was just taboo. We weren’t talking about it. There was no one to have that talk with. I felt like I wasn’t supposed to be doing it. It was never said directly. Now that I have open dialogue with an uncle who is gay. A lot of his experiences are similar to mine. He’s someone I can relate to. If we all had the opportunity to go get someone like us in a generation ahead of us, we’ll see they experienced the same things. The youth is gettihg in touch with their sexuaity younger now.“

“I feel like I’m still dealing with resenting religion and growing up in church because there were pastors who would say, ‘Homosexuals are going to hell.’ I never thought to challenge a pastor and say, ‘You shouldn’t condemn anyone.’ I would go to church with my parents and same thing. The pastor said, ‘homosexuals will burn in hell.’ That was the last time. I went and told them, ‘Don’t ask me to go again.’ So, for me, I struggle with not resenting my parents for making me grow up in church. If I didn’t grow up with that religion I might’ve found happiness sooner. I feel like a late bloomer. Not being able to accept who I am just pushed a lot of my progress back. I’m catching up and enjoying that. I like the teaching of Jesus, but that’s it for me. I don’t think I would raise my children in the church. I feel people taint the image of religion for me. It’s a process. When I came out, I could see this battle within my mom, ‘Do what makes you happy’, ‘But what about the Bible?’ When I told my dad, he sat me down, ‘You know if I had a son and he came out to me, I would probably love him more because I know how society treats LGBTQ people.’ I thought that was his way of warming up to me. And I said, ‘I want to share something with you,’ and he said ‘Don’t.’ And he left for the day. He was trying to love me straight. It isn’t until two years ago that maybe he simmered down, but he still doesn’t agree. He truly believes I’m going to hell, but doesn’t challenge me or make comments. But all of that is from religion unfortunately. My mom has changed. I asked her if she would come to my wedding.”

“It’s taken a long time and a lot of therapy. Religion was very difficult. I have a love/hate relationship with religion. I’m glad I grew up as Jehovah’s Witness. It was very protective of my two brothers and myself. We didn’t grow up with a mom. My dad was very violent, alcohol and physical. So the church kept us in a little bubble. My younger brother is also gay. I never said anything, and I find that I blocked out so much stuff that I don’t remember anyone saying anything negative. And I know they did. It affected him. When he finally told the elders in the church, they told him he has to change. They told him, ‘If you don’t, we’ll disfellowship you.’ Well he said that I was gay, too, and he told on another friend. They disfellowshipped us all. I always used to go to a bank where my cousin worked and I asked, ‘How’s my aunt? How’s my dad?’ And she refused to talk to me. I called my sister and she started crying. Not only my family, but also my religious family, they totally shunned me. It was the hardest thing. I didn’t realize that my younger brother was going through so much; he didn’t say that our dad kicked him out. There was resentment saying, ‘You left and you didn’t help.’ I had no idea. We never talked about it until about two years ago. One Saturday morning there was knocking [at my door] and it was a Jehovah’s Witness. I let her ramble, then I said I was a Jehovah’s Witness. I basically, without being mean, told her: I don’t understand how you would go out and get someone you don’t know and save them and treat them so nicely. Yet I’m gay, my brother, my friend. All of us were disfellowshipped. She just left. They need to hear this. My dad was an alcoholic and beat the hell out of us. All these people having affairs and nobody said anything. They’re picking and choosing homosexuality just because. Now I have a better relationship with my dad. I didn’t talk to him for 20 years. At one point I told him, ‘I need to verbally tell you that being gay is something I will talk to you about because of work, but it’s not the only thing I have going on.’ Because every time I would go visit is because it was all church. That’s why I stopped coming because every conversation was about repenting. Talk about other things.“

“I was primarily raised by my mom, she’s Jewish but we’re not particularly Jewish. She’d say, ‘Life is just too short and if you find someone who makes you happy you be with that person. It’s wonderful to find someone who loves you back.’ So I feel grateful to have had that kind of freedom growing up. There was a time when I was a teen wondering, ‘Am I bi?’ And she told me, ‘When I was young I kind of questioned myself, too, and if you bring home a girl one day, fine.’ Fortunately I never directly felt assaulted because of religion, but I will say the issue of homosexuality or anything that’s not heterosexuality is always the ending point for me with religious talk.”

“Jesus is all loving and everything. At the same time you you see people judging you because of homosexuality. Jesus loved everybody so what does that make any difference with homosexuality. Surely it would matter first, loving everyone. But it’s always that topic because it’s ‘a sin’.”

“Jesus is all loving. It’s the people who are saying, ‘It’s the homosexual.’ But only He can speak to you. It’s the people saying that. Even the pastor. He can be the worst person leading the flock. This one person who’s supposed to be the translator and trusted in your religious advice is giving you falsified information or has a particular bias.”

LET’S TALK ABOUT ‘CODE SWITCHING.’

WHEN DO YOU DO IT

AND HOW DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL?

“For me it was religion. At church. That’s when I would code switch. It would be a person not trying to show it, hide it from the congregation. But when I was out of the church, I was someone else, my true self! Someone free and loving. Myself. But when I was in church, it was specific. ‘Don’t let anyone know about it.’”

“I know I’ve done a lot of customer service and when we throw parties for primarily older white people, it’s very proper and you act … inoffensive. What you imagine they would think is inoffensive, and unfortunately, that’s without showing any traces of black culture. It’s very homogenized and very, [politely chuckling] ‘Ha ha ha’. When I’m with friends, we just relax and act certain ways. And being a person of color that’s probably an experience that a lot of people have: ways you act and talk just with your group and with people who aren’t in your group.”

“Around family I try to look more feminine. A little more makeup or lipgloss. Around friends or if I date, I’m more andro and more masculine. I feel like I’m betraying myself when I do it. Even … body hair. I will remove it if I’m going on a first date because I don’t know if that person’s gonna like it when normally I’m natural everywhere. I just had the experience where this person liked body hair and I didn’t have any. Why didn’t I just stay true to myself? It’s like a self betrayal. I totally code switch around family, work, and first dates.”

“I’m definitely guilty of it. I code switch. I don’t feel guilty for doing it or uncomfortable doing it. The only place it gets controversial is at the barber shop. The African American barber shop for a male can be intense. The majority of us code switch at the barbershop. It’s just an overly saturated masculine place. They’re having a conversation about homosexuality and your skin starts to melt off. Even if you’re comfortable within yourself, do you raise your hand and speak up or just grin it out for the 45 minutes? Ironically, my barber knows my sexuality and is very open-minded. I think we’re more ignorant in a group than we are individually. They all have a family member who’s like that, and individually they may hug their son or brother. But because everyone is downing gays, they’ll be collectively ignorant.”

“I was a teacher and I taught elementary. I would code switch there because of the fear of parents finding out. When I was with the teachers and administration it was a constant change. It wasn’t hard. It wasn’t like I changed my demeanor or the way I talked, but … it was interesting. When I started working they would ask, ‘Are you married or have a girlfriend?’ Then finally they caught on and stopped asking and I was like, ‘Thank God.’ I think I code switch when I work with youth because I feel like I have to be their mentor. The way I act with my friends I would never act that way with them. Even with the parents. Everytime I would go do a presentation, it was always formal wear and I was doing presentations about gender norms and appearance. I felt comfortable. I like wearing a tie. But then I started making a point to wear jeans or a pink shirt… an intention for them to see that I don’t always dress this [traditional] way. I code switch all the time.”

“Sometimes it’s an appropriate code switch. You are being a role model and mentor, it’s appropriate that you do not conduct yourself the way you would with your friends. You want the next generation to have some kind of aesthetic for themselves. You can chose to be fun with it at times.”

“I do wanna address something that makes me cringe. A lot of my friends…. For most of my life, my best friends have been gay men… I’ve always had a lot of gay friends and it’s never been a thing, but I know… I don’t like the kind of things I read like, ‘Get a gay best friend.’ It feels cringy. As a straight person, its like, don’t bring us down like that. ‘Yas queen.’ I don’t like saying it because it feels like an appropriation and when I text a friend, if I want to say ‘YAS’, I’ll say ‘yessss’ with lots of s’s. It feels like, ‘That’s not yours.’ So there is a kind of code switching that straight people do in front of gay people. White guy who hangs out with black people… if thats how he grew up, then that’s one thing. But some people would say ‘That’s not for you.’ I think straight people taking on gay culture — I’m curious as people who don’t identify as straight, does that make you cringe? How does that make you feel about it when you hear straight people appropriating gay culture?”

“There’s so many different colors of gay. You go into deeper denominations of gay. The flamboyant, street gay. Closeted gay. Different types of gay. And to hear it, it’s just like... for me, it doesn’t bother me because it’s cheesy to hear someone do it and it’s not really them. But if it’s authentic and genuine, go for it. If you’re doing it just to mock someone that’s when it makes my skin cringe. If you think you’re just buddy-buddy and we’re at work and you just give me an over exaggerated ‘yassss’ I’m pissed because this is not the time or the place.”

“I’m guilty of that. With my best friend, she’s a makeup cosmetologist, and when she does her makeup I do, ‘Yas bitch, get it!’”

“If a straight person is using slang that I use, then it doesn’t matter. It might make me feel a bit closer. It’s kinda like a bridge. I didn’t know where the whole ‘Yas queen’ came from. To me it sounds annoying and obnoxious, so I don’t use it.“

“If you go out to a bar, it definitely comes out.”

“My mom and my sisters, when they get together, their Spanish changes. It sounds like they’re having fun talking the way they would back home. I think some people bring that comfort that feels like home and they bring that out of you.”

“I think we’re used to living in a world where most people are aware of everything they do because they don’t want to be judged. When you’re with a group of people who have shared experiences, you’re just gonna revel in that. There’s just no judgement and you can do whatever.”

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